. >> brown: so it is this program that is now caught up in the fiscal cliff negotiations. >> right. and it's unique this time around. this particular end of the month is a clear-cuttoff time. we have-- . >> brown: in the past it was phased out. >> right. and as harry said in your piece pointed out this is really the worst time of the year for this to happen. so what we need to do now is not just say oh let's just extend them. i think everyone thinks something like that has to happen. and it needs to be for a period of time that will be humane for the millions of people unemployed. we still have a very high unemployment rate. i think it's time now to do some experiments. how do we combine the extensions with mandatory training to make sure that people are skilled up when they reenter the labor force and don't take this bad decision, in my view, of simply dropping out bdz why do you think we need to do those experiments now rather than just continue or extend. >> well, this is the time to do it. congress is focused on extension. let's focus them also on changing the program subtlyment